Adopting a Black Child: What White Parents Need to Know Before Transracial Adoption
Love matters. But when you're adopting a Black child as a White parent, love alone isn't enough to prepare you for everything your child may experience.
If you're considering transracial adoption, you may already be asking important questions. How do you help your child develop a strong racial identity? What if your community isn't diverse? How do you prepare for conversations about racism, belonging, and cultural differences?
And perhaps most importantly: Are you simply willing to adopt a Black child, or are you prepared to raise one?
That's the question at the heart of a powerful conversation on The Adoption Roadmap Podcast between host Rebecca Gruenspan, MSW, founder of RG Adoption Consulting, and guest Rhonda Chandler, a social worker with nearly 30 years of experience and founder of Lovin' the Skin I'm In and Melanated Adoption Journey.
Together, they explore what White adoptive parents need to understand about raising Black children, why cultural preparation must begin before placement, and how to build a family environment where children feel seen, understood, and connected to their identity.
Watch Episode #152 of The Adoption Roadmap Podcast: What White Parents Need to Understand About Transracial Adoption, featuring Rhonda Chandler.
What Is Transracial Adoption?
Transracial adoption occurs when a child is adopted by a parent or parents of a different race.
In domestic infant adoption, this may include a White couple adopting a Black or biracial newborn.
While transracial adoption can bring families together across racial and cultural backgrounds, it also introduces responsibilities that go beyond those of same-race parenting.
Children adopted transracially may grow up navigating questions about their racial identity, their adoption story, their birth family, and how others perceive them.
For White parents adopting Black children, this means understanding that your child's experience of the world may be fundamentally different from your own.
Preparing for those differences is an ongoing responsibility, not a one-time task.
1. Being Willing to Adopt a Black Child Is Not the Same as Being Prepared
One of the most important distinctions Rhonda makes is between willingness and preparedness.
A hopeful adoptive parent may be open to adopting a child of any race. They may have a loving home, financial stability, and every intention of providing a wonderful childhood.
But being open to transracial adoption doesn't automatically mean someone is equipped for its unique challenges.
Preparedness requires intentional action.
Before adopting a Black child, prospective parents should begin examining their own assumptions and biases, learning about Black history and culture, and developing meaningful relationships within the Black community.
Rhonda emphasizes that families should not wait until a child arrives to begin building this foundation.
That preparation includes asking difficult questions:
How diverse is our neighborhood, school district, and social circle?
Do we have meaningful relationships with Black adults and families?
Are we prepared to recognize and address racism, including within our extended family?
Can we support our child's racial identity without expecting them to share our experiences or perspectives?
Are we willing to change aspects of our lives to better meet our child's needs?
These questions aren't meant to discourage transracial adoption. They're meant to encourage the thoughtful preparation children deserve.
2. Your Child's Experience of Race Will Be Different From Yours
One of the realities White adoptive parents must recognize is that their child may encounter situations they have never personally experienced.
Rhonda explains that the way a Black child is treated in public may change depending on whether they are accompanied by their White parents.
A child may experience curiosity, assumptions, stereotypes, or discrimination. Those experiences can become more complicated as they grow older and begin navigating school, friendships, and public spaces independently.
Parents cannot assume that because their child is loved and accepted at home, they will experience that same acceptance everywhere else.
This is why conversations about race must happen early and continue throughout childhood.
Children need more than reassurance that their family loves them. They need adults who acknowledge the realities they may face and help them navigate those experiences.
For White parents, this may mean listening to perspectives they have never encountered, acknowledging what they don't know, and learning from people with lived experience.
It also means recognizing that a child's experience of racism or exclusion should never be minimized simply because their parents haven't experienced it themselves.
3. Build Genuine Relationships Within the Black Community
When Rhonda relocated her family from Charlotte, North Carolina, to the Green Bay, Wisconsin, area, she quickly recognized how a lack of racial representation affected her children.
Their new school district had very little diversity, and her children struggled with confidence, belonging, and finding peers who shared their experiences.
Unable to find the support she wanted for them, Rhonda created it.
What began as small gatherings for girls eventually developed into Lovin' the Skin I'm In, an organization supporting Black and biracial girls through community, mentorship, cultural experiences, and confidence-building programs.
Her experience illustrates why representation and community are essential considerations for transracial adoptive families.
A child should not have to rely exclusively on their White parents to learn about Black identity, culture, or lived experiences.
Parents can begin building meaningful connections by:
Developing authentic friendships with Black families and adults.
Seeking community organizations and cultural events.
Considering racial representation when choosing schools and neighborhoods.
Identifying trusted mentors and role models.
Building relationships with professionals who understand Black children's experiences.
Importantly, these relationships should not exist solely to educate or support your child. They should be genuine, reciprocal connections that become part of your family's everyday life.
The goal isn't simply to expose your child to diversity occasionally. It's to make meaningful representation part of their world.
4. Learn About Black Hair and Skincare Before Your Child Arrives
Hair and skincare may seem like practical parenting details, but in transracial adoption, they are also connected to identity, dignity, and cultural understanding.
Rhonda recommends beginning this education immediately, ideally before placement.
Black hair textures and skincare needs can differ from what White parents are familiar with.
Learning appropriate care requires research, guidance, and a willingness to ask questions.
Parents can prepare by connecting with stylists experienced in Black hair care, learning about protective styling and maintenance, and identifying appropriate products and routines.
Rhonda also encourages families to seek trusted local resources rather than relying exclusively on information found online.
During the episode, Rebecca and Rhonda discuss Styles 4 Kidz, an organization supporting transracial adoptive and foster families with textured hair education and care.
Learning these skills before your child arrives can help make hair and skincare a normal, affirming part of family life rather than a source of stress or uncertainty.
5. Make Black Culture and Representation Part of Your Home
A child's home should reflect their identity and history, not only the identities of their adoptive parents.
Rhonda encourages families to think about what their children see when they look around their home.
Are there books featuring Black children and families? Artwork celebrating Black culture? Photographs of their birth family, when available and appropriate? Music, stories, and traditions that help them feel connected to their heritage?
Representation can be incorporated into everyday family life through:
Children's books featuring diverse Black characters and experiences.
Artwork and photographs reflecting the child's identity and family connections.
Music, celebrations, and cultural traditions.
Relationships with Black mentors, educators, and community members.
Opportunities to explore Black history and cultural contributions.
Rebecca makes an important observation during their conversation: these experiences should not make the adopted child feel singled out.
Rather than treating cultural activities as something the family does because of one child, parents can embrace them as part of the entire family's identity.
When a family adopts across racial and cultural lines, its traditions and experiences can grow to reflect everyone who belongs to it.
6. Honor Your Child's Birth Family and Cultural Heritage
In open adoption, relationships with a child's birth family can provide meaningful opportunities to preserve cultural and family connections.
Rhonda encourages adoptive parents to learn about the traditions, foods, celebrations, music, and experiences that matter to their child's family of origin.
These conversations can begin during the matching process, when appropriate and welcomed by the expectant parent.
Parents might ask about favorite family meals, important holidays, meaningful music, or traditions they would like their child to know.
Not every family will have specific traditions to share, and not every open adoption relationship will develop in the same way.
But even small details can become meaningful connections to a child's personal history.
Rebecca also highlights the importance of incorporating these traditions naturally into family life rather than treating them as something that belongs exclusively to the adopted child.
For example, the whole family might prepare a meaningful meal, attend a cultural event, or celebrate a tradition connected to the child's heritage.
Preserving cultural identity isn't about recreating someone else's family. It's about honoring the people, relationships, and history that are already part of your child's story.
7. Be Prepared for Difficult Conversations About Race and Identity
What happens when your child comes home from school and says, "I wish I was White"?
Or tells you, "You don't understand because you're not Black"?
These are the kinds of conversations Rebecca and Rhonda want adoptive parents to consider before their children reach those developmental stages.
A parent's instinct may be to reassure their child immediately:
But we love you.
You're just like everyone else.
We don't see color in our family.
Although well-intentioned, these responses can unintentionally dismiss what the child is trying to communicate.
Instead, Rhonda encourages parents to validate their child's feelings, remain curious, and explore what may have prompted the conversation.
Perhaps something happened at school. Perhaps the child is beginning to notice differences between themselves and their family. Or perhaps they're wrestling with questions about adoption, identity, and belonging.
Parents don't need to have a perfect answer immediately.
Sometimes the most supportive response is to acknowledge that the child's feelings are real, listen without defensiveness, and continue the conversation.
Avoiding discussions about race doesn't make racial differences disappear.
Children need to know that their parents are safe people to approach with difficult questions, even when those questions make the adults uncomfortable.
8. Advocate for Your Child at School and Beyond
Transracial adoptive parenting also involves understanding how a child's experiences may affect their behavior, emotional well-being, and relationships at school.
Rhonda, drawing on her social work experience, encourages educators and parents to look beyond surface-level behaviors.
A child who appears withdrawn, anxious, disruptive, or defiant may be navigating circumstances that adults don't immediately recognize.
That doesn't mean every behavioral challenge is connected to adoption or race.
It means adults should remain curious about the factors contributing to a child's experiences rather than jumping to conclusions.
Rhonda recommends establishing positive relationships with teachers and school staff early, before problems arise.
Parents can also advocate for access to culturally responsive and adoption-competent support when appropriate.
As children grow older, it's important to balance advocacy with respect for their increasing independence, privacy, and ability to share their own stories.
The goal is to create a supportive network around the child without making them feel that their identity or adoption is a problem to be solved.
9. Understand That Love Alone Cannot Replace Preparation
Toward the end of the conversation, Rebecca raises a difficult question: What about people who believe White parents should not adopt Black children?
Rhonda acknowledges that people have different perspectives on transracial adoption.
Her response returns to the central theme of the episode: willingness versus preparedness.
Having a beautiful home, financial resources, and a commitment to loving a child is meaningful, but those things do not automatically prepare parents to support a child's racial and cultural identity.
That preparation must include understanding how the child may experience the world outside their family.
It also means accepting that learning won't end once the adoption is finalized.
As children grow, their questions, relationships, and understanding of identity will evolve.
Parents must be willing to evolve alongside them.
10. Five Ways to Prepare for Transracial Adoption Before Placement
If you're considering adopting a Black child, here are five practical places to begin.
1. Educate yourself
Learn about Black history, culture, hair and skincare, racial identity, and the experiences Black children may encounter. Seek out perspectives from Black adults and transracial adoptees.
2. Build genuine community
Develop meaningful relationships with Black individuals and families. Look beyond occasional cultural events and create lasting connections.
3. Examine your biases
Reflect honestly on your assumptions, upbringing, social environment, and how your family responds to racial differences. Be willing to have uncomfortable conversations.
4. Create representation at home
Include books, artwork, photographs, music, and traditions that reflect your child's identity and heritage. Make these a natural part of family life.
5. Practice open conversations
Begin developing the skills to listen, validate, and talk about race, adoption, and belonging. Your child should never have to protect you from difficult conversations about their identity.
These steps are a starting point, not a completed checklist. Transracial adoption requires ongoing learning, humility, and responsiveness to the individual child.
Frequently Asked Questions About Adopting a Black Child
Can White parents adopt a Black child?
Yes. Transracial adoption can involve White parents adopting Black children. The legal requirements depend on the type of adoption and applicable laws. Beyond eligibility, prospective parents should carefully consider how they will support their child's racial identity, cultural connections, and emotional well-being throughout life.
How can White adoptive parents support a Black child's identity?
Parents can support their child's identity through meaningful Black community connections, positive racial representation, cultural experiences, honest conversations about race, and opportunities to maintain appropriate connections with their birth family.
Should parents discuss racism with young adopted children?
Age-appropriate conversations about race and differences can begin in early childhood. As children grow, parents can help them understand more complex experiences involving stereotypes, discrimination, identity, and belonging.
What if we live in a predominantly White community?
Consider how your family can create regular, meaningful opportunities for connection with Black peers, mentors, professionals, and community organizations. It may also be important to evaluate whether your neighborhood and school environment can adequately support your child's needs over time.
When should we start preparing for transracial adoption?
Ideally, before you're matched with an expectant parent. Building community, examining biases, learning about cultural identity, and identifying resources take time. These responsibilities continue long after placement.
Preparing for Adoption Means Preparing for a Lifetime of Parenting
Adopting a newborn is only the beginning of becoming a parent.
The decisions you make before placement can influence the environment, relationships, and support systems your child grows up with.
For families considering transracial adoption, preparation involves more than understanding the adoption process. It means thoughtfully considering the child's future experiences, their identity, their birth family connections, and the community that will surround them.
The most important question isn't simply whether you're open to adopting a Black child.
It's whether you're committed to doing the work required to support that child as they grow into the person they're meant to become.
Listen to the Full Conversation
For a deeper discussion about raising Black children in White adoptive families, cultural identity, hair and skincare, community, and difficult parenting conversations, watch or listen to Episode #152 of The Adoption Roadmap Podcast:
What White Parents Need to Understand About Transracial Adoption, featuring Rhonda Chandler.
Rhonda is a social worker and founder of Lovin' the Skin I'm In and Melanated Adoption Journey, which provide community, education, and support related to racial identity and transracial adoption.
Ready to Begin Your Adoption Journey?
At RG Adoption Consulting, we believe prospective adoptive parents deserve thoughtful guidance and preparation throughout the adoption process.
Our proven four-step method, The Adoption Roadmap™, helps hopeful adoptive families navigate domestic infant adoption with greater clarity, education, and support.
Whether you're just beginning to explore adoption or you're already preparing to grow your family, we're here to help you understand your options and take your next steps intentionally.
Or explore where you are in the process with our Personalized Adoption Roadmap Quiz.
Read the Full Podcast Transcript
Rebecca Gruenspan (00:00.514)
to have happen where you I I've recorded a whole podcast. a whole podcast I've done. Where I've had to redo it. Okie dokie. All right. Here we go.
Rhonda Chandler (00:05.296)
Start talking and
Yeah, it happens.
Rebecca Gruenspan (00:20.202)
Rhonda, I am so glad you're with us today. We're gonna jump right in. I wanna know how you got into this work and what happened with your own experience that made you start loving the skin I'm in, which I love that name. and then ultimately that led to melanated adoption journey.
Rhonda Chandler (00:41.52)
Good morning. So thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation. so yeah, I want to start off by first saying I'm a mother. I'm also a social worker. I've been a social worker for probably close to 30 years now. but loving the skin I'm in started after relocating to the Green Bay area from Charlotte, North Carolina. there was not a lot of diversity.
Rebecca Gruenspan (00:42.712)
Good morning.
Rebecca Gruenspan (00:50.84)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (01:11.654)
in the community. so I have young adult children now who were going to middle school, high school, and then elementary school who really had some challenges acclimating to the community. the district that we were in
was less than one percent minority. So the kids really struggled in that space because they did not see that representation or have that representation you know, like they did in Charlotte. So, loving the skin I'm in started because particularly my girls, but then my son also, they had struggles with confidence, self esteem, etcetera. So as a result I was looking
For you know, options, support, community for them, and didn't find that here. So I built the community for them and started meeting families in the community who had daughters who had similar experiences. So I opened my home and said, Let's start meeting at my home, you know, monthly. Let's see how this goes, just so the girls can build community. And it was during like we started right
Rebecca Gruenspan (02:26.477)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (02:30.123)
COVID hit. So we connected in person briefly and then COVID shut everything down and we pivoted and we went to
meeting virtually to stay connected. and then when we were able to get in person and and mask up, we did that and all of the things. And once school reopened, we were able to start providing programming in local schools and it has just taken off ever since. This is year six for us. So
Rebecca Gruenspan (03:01.843)
What kind of programming in schools?
Rhonda Chandler (03:04.919)
So we do like social emotional learning groups. we've been, you know, we service kids elementary through high school age. So we would do girls groups either after school, during lunch, whatever, you know, the needs of the school were, but really talking about self-esteem, building their confidence, exposing them to cultural experiences, you know, if we were able to find events and activities.
Rebecca Gruenspan (03:08.279)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (03:34.826)
We would take them, you know, to those particular events. we had Alvin Ailey come to an event center here in the community. So we gathered to go to that event. there's another performing arts center about 30 minutes from us where we got to see the Sueto performance. So we took high school girls there. we also for the past couple of years have done a historically black college and university tour with our high school girls.
Rebecca Gruenspan (03:41.837)
Ooh, that's a good one.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:03.255)
So is this just for is this just for black students, black and brown students, for anybody?
Rhonda Chandler (04:04.699)
Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (04:10.691)
This is for girls who identify as African American, black or biracial is our population. Yep, it's the population that we serve. Yes.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:16.109)
Okay.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:21.005)
Okay, great. And are you an adoptive family?
Rhonda Chandler (04:24.303)
We are not. you know, we have kinship adoption within our family. I think a lot of people do, but we are not. But what I have found in doing this work in relocating here, there are quite a number of families that have adopted transracially or are fostering transracially and they have gravitated to loving the skin I'm in.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:25.527)
Okay.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:31.938)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:48.908)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (04:53.429)
Love it. I I wanted to make that distinction because even a family who was born black in a black family still experiences these same issues when put in a in a in a community that's I that's you know you can't find as many mirrors. How did you end up in in this community?
Rhonda Chandler (04:53.621)
because they yes.
Correct.
Rhonda Chandler (05:15.545)
So we moved here because of my husband's job. Yes, his the company he works for asked him to relocate here. So yeah, because we were we were comfortable. We were just fine in Charlotte, North Carolina. but yes, because of the company he works for, they asked him to come out here.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:18.092)
Uh-huh.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:21.943)
Okay.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:26.326)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:33.013)
And is that something you considered when you had school age children when you were moving? Had you had you had the forethought of okay, this might be an issue or did it not dawn on you?
Rhonda Chandler (05:44.248)
no, absolutely. I was very hesitant. In fact, my husband had been asked multiple times to come out to the Green Bay area. And I just I didn't want to hear of it. I didn't want to have that conversation because, you know, we had our community in North Carolina, we had a very strong faith community. you know, in our church families that our kids grew up with.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:45.952)
Okay.
Rebecca Gruenspan (05:51.949)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (06:00.188)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (06:13.921)
parents are close by were close by relatives were kind of in that southeast area so yes i was very hesitant and did the research but you know i had to i guess kind of put my selfishness aside and support my husband and say you know overall this is an opportunity for our entire family so you know but yep definitely
Rebecca Gruenspan (06:42.113)
Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (06:43.851)
had done done the research and had concerns about relocating.
Rebecca Gruenspan (06:48.833)
Well, I love that you saw a need that your own families had, that your own family, your own children had. You have a social work background and you found a couple other families. Now at at the beginning, I'm curious, the couple other families that you found, were they all black families too, or or is this your okay.
Rhonda Chandler (07:06.723)
They were, yep. They well it was a actually it was a combination. We had families who had adopted or transracially. We had families like ours that had relocated here for job opportunities. We had families who were raising biracial children, their own, you know, biracial children. So we see a a combination of you know different family makeups here.
Rebecca Gruenspan (07:14.336)
Okay.
Rebecca Gruenspan (07:21.101)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (07:25.921)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (07:33.995)
Yeah, so it was just out of because n I mean, now you have a now you have a a whole organization now that helps in the adoption journey. Was that something you ever sought out to do or did it seek you?
Rhonda Chandler (07:48.484)
Yeah.
It sought me. you know, just in doing this work, we started, you know, like I said, seeing the families who were either fostering or are fostering or have adopted transracially and even, you know, some of the human services agencies were referring families to us or reaching out and saying, Hey, do you offer anything, you know, for the families? And it wasn't until, you know, we really started kind of
Rebecca Gruenspan (07:50.806)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (08:02.925)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (08:19.413)
looking into this and seeing there was a need, you know, surveying families who said, you know, we we didn't get that education and support.
when we were you know, fostering or adopting transracially or it's like, hey, I'm in it and I had no idea what to expect. So you know, we said, well this this is definitely an area where we need to do some education and really support our families.
Rebecca Gruenspan (08:40.268)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (08:50.367)
And beyond beyond your group work, do you do individual one on one with with adoptees or or families?
Rhonda Chandler (08:59.673)
So with so with this, you know, we have started the melanated adoption journey, an LLC, which I formed, because we want to work with those families, you know, that have questions that need some guidance to navigate. So yes, one on one services are offered. We also are open to doing, you know, group work.
Rebecca Gruenspan (09:17.537)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (09:29.069)
trainings with agencies, you know, professionals so that parents are I don't want to say set up, but they're supported, and feel like, okay, you know, I can do this, I have a village, and not be in crisis and trying to, you know, seek out services when, you know, something doesn't go right or, you know, they'll have someone on this journey with them.
Rebecca Gruenspan (09:56.44)
This is so important and so needed. two other questions on this line, which is one, can you work with people anywhere in the country?
Rhonda Chandler (10:07.065)
We are open to, you know, we have this virtual space or if there, you know, are folks that would like us to come to them, we are certainly open to that as well.
Rebecca Gruenspan (10:10.487)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (10:18.711)
That's awesome. And and then my second question is because it kind of found you. And even though you have the social work background, having an adoption competent background is very different. So beyond, like there's two different things here, right? There's the whole how to become a acclimated within the black community when you have a black child and you're not black yourself. And then there's also the
the the trauma and attachment background of adoptees. Do you do you dive into both or do you really stay in your lane of we are strictly focused on the transracial piece?
Rhonda Chandler (10:59.641)
So because we were seeing an increase in our participants, I actually took a course through the KC Foundation for the adoption competency work because I wanted to be able, you know, to support our family. So understanding that identity and you know, the behaviors, the underlying behaviors
Rebecca Gruenspan (11:06.477)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (11:14.721)
Love it.
Rhonda Chandler (11:27.767)
I really I really wanted to be able to support them. So spent some time taking that course so that we can offer that service so that we can educate parents. Again, we want to connect with families even when they're in in the stage of thinking about adoption or fostering. If you
Rebecca Gruenspan (11:49.153)
Hmm. I'm so glad I found you. I I think I could send you like twenty five families tomorrow.
Rhonda Chandler (11:55.325)
That's awesome. That we would love to have conversation.
Rebecca Gruenspan (11:59.562)
Yeah. That's fantastic what you're doing. now you said I I think these were your words. I'm not correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a difference between being willing to adopt a black child and being ready to raise one. So talk to me about that and then talk to me about what a family should be doing before they're even matched. Cause you said, you know, we want to work with families before they even adopt.
Rhonda Chandler (12:17.871)
Correct. Correct.
Rebecca Gruenspan (12:29.899)
So what's the difference between being willing to adopt a black child, being ready to raise one w raise one and what should families be doing before even getting matched?
Rhonda Chandler (12:40.909)
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. That that willingness is, you know, I'm open to the idea. I want to adopt, I want to have a child in my home. But if you are looking at
Rebecca Gruenspan (12:47.051)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (12:54.357)
Adopting or fostering cross-culturally the preparedness, just like you know, when we all had children, if you're a mother, first-time mother, you read the what to expect, when to when you're expecting book, but the preparedness is being intentional about surrounding yourself in the community, not just starting when that child is placed in your home. Again, we're not operating in crisis, we want you to be.
Prepared and truly do the work working on yourself. What are your own biases? What are the biases of my family, my community, my co-workers that I will be bringing this child or these children around, you know, because there may be some unhealthy situations that you know you don't want to expose your child to. So that prepares.
Rebecca Gruenspan (13:27.031)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (13:54.114)
Preparedness is is really, you know, is that inner work and then really getting out there and starting to immerse yourself in the community and building that village for your your new family.
Rebecca Gruenspan (14:08.866)
Yeah, and it and like we said at the beginning, nobody wants to admit out loud that they might have some biases. You know, even you know, you could be a person that loves everybody and, you know, is open to anything, but when you really come down to it and dig inside, you know, are you somebody that might flinch if you see somebody walking down the street that doesn't, you know, that that makes you nervous.
Rhonda Chandler (14:15.383)
Yeah, it's hard. I it's hard.
Rhonda Chandler (14:42.031)
Last year.
Rebecca Gruenspan (14:43.528)
I know. Well done.
Rhonda Chandler (14:45.475)
There you are.
Rebecca Gruenspan (14:48.812)
was weird. Hold on. I can't hear you anymore. Wait, hold on.
Rhonda Chandler (14:53.392)
no.
Rebecca Gruenspan (14:59.704)
Bye.
Rhonda Chandler (15:04.067)
How about now?
Rebecca Gruenspan (15:04.58)
My just like crapped out on me. Hold on.
Rebecca Gruenspan (15:13.4)
That's never happened.
Rebecca Gruenspan (15:36.37)
now I have three dogs behind me.
Rhonda Chandler (15:40.057)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (15:45.544)
All right, let me just get the speaker. Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (16:01.368)
Can you hear me if I talk into here? Okay, I can hear you well enough. We're just gonna keep going. Okay. You could be somebody who knows in your heart of hearts, you're open to everybody. But have you ever been that person where...
Rhonda Chandler (16:03.823)
I can hear you.
Rebecca Gruenspan (16:22.411)
If you see a black person walking down the street, it might make you nervous. You don't want to admit that out loud, but maybe that's happened to you. And those are the types of things we're talking about to really look at for bringing a black child into your house. I mean, that's just one example. And it's the one thing that came to my mind, but there there's other things like that. There's the microaggressions. There's there's, you know, under
Rhonda Chandler (16:50.127)
The stereotypes, just yeah. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (16:51.76)
stereotypes, understanding equity and equality. And these are real factors that are going to be a part of your every single day life. And you need to know what that is and what that means.
Rhonda Chandler (17:03.085)
Yes. Absolutely. Are you are you not only willing, are you prepared? Ha and how are you preparing to bring this child into your home as one of your own?
Rebecca Gruenspan (17:11.949)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (17:18.166)
Yeah. And that doesn't just go for black white. It's any transracial, your expertise is in black white. You know, I wish there was, you know, these types of groups for every different race and ethnicity. So a lot of families, I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this one.
Rhonda Chandler (17:22.357)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (17:31.19)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (17:43.574)
A lot of families say, we're open to biracial, white, black, but not full black. What comes up for you around that?
Rhonda Chandler (17:53.2)
I think because society is able to it's more accepting. So, you know, if a child is of lighter skin or biracial, they're white passing, they can, you know, so society has a different view of them if the child is black and with a white family.
you know, there may be the assumptions around, well, mom may be white, dad may be black, but I think I think s it's it's society's perception. you know, being being closer to white, it's more acceptable.
Rebecca Gruenspan (18:37.369)
Yeah, but on a deeper level, and I want to kind of push back on you about this, what does a family need to know? My pushback is...
Rhonda Chandler (18:44.079)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (18:55.606)
But kind of the same thing, like looking within. Your child will still be a Black child.
Rhonda Chandler (19:00.801)
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (19:03.32)
to you, the way you raise them and what you're going to face in the community.
is the same for that child, most likely, but outward facing, it might be a little bit more acceptable.
You know, like you said. What do you want a family? You know how do we talk to families about that and and what are the conversations that you've had around that if any?
Rhonda Chandler (19:34.65)
think we need to, you know, I'm a person like, let's just kinda be real, and open and honest because, you know, we have places where we may not be able to have these conversations. You know, schools, churches, et cetera, may kind of, you know, we have to keep things, you know, correct in a sense.
Rebecca Gruenspan (19:59.064)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (20:00.109)
But the this is their reality, you know. So when they go out in the community, if it's without their parent, the treatment is going to be different. And when they're with their parent, you know, the treatment
can be different. So we need to have real conversations. we do have real conversations to understand how your child will be treated, how your child, you know, will be perceived, and and just how y how the world is is going, you know, and how they have to move in the world. because they're not always going to be with you.
Rebecca Gruenspan (20:21.644)
Mmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (20:43.161)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (20:47.449)
They you know, they will grow up, they go to school, they go on trips with the school, etcetera. So how how are people
responding, you know, to your child and it's a real thing. And we we really, you know, it's important to delve into that and really educate so that parents understand. And, you know, my husband always says putting putting themselves in the seat of empathy. So they really, they really, you know, they may not ever know, but taking a walk in those child's shoes
is is is so important to and to really you you have to really feel that and get that.
Rebecca Gruenspan (21:34.176)
And that's easier said than done. Speaking of being out in the community, what do you think a white adoptive parent can expect from the black community, specifically a mom? Let's talk about the difference between moms and dads. What can a white adoptive mom expect or maybe walk into if she's in around the black community?
Rhonda Chandler (21:36.075)
It absolutely is. It is.
Rebecca Gruenspan (22:03.786)
with her black child and she's white. What are some of the things that she might experience?
Rhonda Chandler (22:11.149)
You know, I think it can be a variety of things. it could be, you know, it can be curiosity, it can be, they might be fostering, they may be, you know, may have adopted or you know, they may have you know, be in in a racial relationship. you may have you know, moms that come up to other moms to, you know
Rebecca Gruenspan (22:15.255)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (22:36.833)
offer support. So I think I think the experience it can be a variety of things. you know, you can get the stairs or, you know, you may have someone that wants, you know, to embrace and have you become a part of their village, et cetera. But I think, you know, there there are a variety of experiences that you can encounter.
Rebecca Gruenspan (22:57.948)
Well, I want to like get into the nitty gritty here. Let's talk about what you've heard that some people have experienced. I mean, the good, the uncomfortable, all of it. Let's name some of it. I mean, I know what I've heard with people, but what have you heard? What experiences have you heard?
Rhonda Chandler (23:00.546)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (23:18.307)
You know, moms have shared that they've been questioned you know, about the relationship. Is that, you know, are you not necessarily the mom or the caregiver, but are you the nanny or, you know, how did how did you get this child?
Rebecca Gruenspan (23:32.513)
in
Rhonda Chandler (23:36.24)
you know, again, like I said, the stares have been, you know, a lot of of what I've I've heard, but people being bold enough to ask, you know, like how did you get this child or where did this child come from? Or, you know, if you're the nanny caregiver, you couldn't possibly be the mother, you know, of the child. So,
you know, I I was in a situation when I relocated here and we first started the organization. and we took I think it was six of our girls, we went to the beach and I went with two moms that have adopted transracially. So it was myself
Two moms who who adopted transracially and the six young ladies were black biracial young women. And you know, I felt the stares of one particular couple that was near us on the on the beach on the sand, you know, we had our blankets and chairs and everything.
and we were getting ready to leave the beach. So you know I was asking the girls, make sure you have all your stuff clean up and just you could just feel the eyes on you. And when we were leaving, the one of the individuals said to me, Your girls are beautiful. So she just assumed that all six of those girls were my children.
they were all the same age. Like they all were around, you know, that I think seventh seventh, eighth grade. So, you know, but she just assumed that they were all mine, not even, you know, thinking that the two white mothers that I was with could possibly be their parents. but she you know, so she just made the s the assumption. But she, you know, she watched us the entire
Rhonda Chandler (25:42.008)
you know, the entire time that we we were at the beach and then when we were leaving. Yep. And then you know, I I just kinda I looked because I just had that feeling. and I just j I just said thank you. And I just went, you know, went to my car. I didn't even try to make it a teachable moment or, you know, but
Rebecca Gruenspan (25:46.016)
She was waiting to say something. And so how did you respond?
Rhonda Chandler (26:08.383)
I just, you know, really just kinda hmm, but I I like I said, I felt it. I saw the the eyes on us the entire time. and she waited. Like I said, the other two women had gone ahead. and I was just making sure like, you know, we had everything and the girls didn't leave anything behind and then she felt the need to compliment me on all of my girls.
Rebecca Gruenspan (26:32.739)
That's so interesting. Hold on one minute. Girls out. I have three dogs wrestling behind me. go. my God. I have two, but. And usually I can't hear the barking, but I have two and then I'm watching my neighbors and I love that they're playing, but not during a podcast recording.
Rhonda Chandler (26:37.231)
my gosh.
Rhonda Chandler (26:46.347)
I have one I have one little one and I'm like, you better not say a word. He's just laying here.
Rhonda Chandler (26:58.143)
Right now. I understand. I understand.
Rebecca Gruenspan (27:02.96)
my gosh. That's interesting and I believe that's a lot of what white parents experience a lot, whether it's somebody coming up and truly wanting to give advice on haircare or questioning why they think it's okay to parent a black child.
Rhonda Chandler (27:20.557)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (27:29.438)
the parenting styles, all of that. And that's for, again, any transracial family. But specifically in the Black community, I think a little bit more so because Black mamas are strong and they want to take care of their own. And it's beautiful, especially when it can be helpful advice, because some moms are open to that. And I think you also have to know as a mom,
Adopting a black child. Are you open to receiving when the black community who you don't know I'm not talking about your friends who you want to seek advice from come up and provide advice You know, and how are you gonna receive that and that's part of your your work, right?
Rhonda Chandler (28:02.925)
Right. Absolutely.
Rhonda Chandler (28:11.971)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (28:19.263)
Absolutely, absolutely. You have to, you know, you have to be teachable. and you have to like you say, you have to be open to to receiving information, to receiving guidance.
Rebecca Gruenspan (28:24.096)
Yes.
Rebecca Gruenspan (28:28.161)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (28:38.187)
And and you you're not you can't just hear what you wanna hear. You you have to be uncomfortable in order to grow in in order to support and raise your child in a healthy in a healthy manner.
Rebecca Gruenspan (28:43.0)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (28:53.645)
Yeah, and at the same time, you know your child, you're the parent. Now, if you were a man, if you're a white dad out with your black child, do you think you'd get the same experience or do you think he's left alone more?
Rhonda Chandler (28:58.262)
Absolutely.
Rhonda Chandler (29:15.469)
He's left alone more. I you know, I've had one, a transracial adoptee share with me. You know, she, yeah, she was out with her dad. and she, the young lady, the the kid kind of got questions or in the stares, you know, and she's like, Yep, this is my dad. And she's, you know, dad calling for him. But I don't, I don't feel like
Rebecca Gruenspan (29:17.753)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (29:38.713)
Mmm.
Rhonda Chandler (29:43.897)
they're as they're approached as often as the mom.
Rebecca Gruenspan (29:49.725)
That's an interesting one. I've heard that before too, where people say, who is this person you're with? Making sure that they're safe. So that's how it plays out more with the male role. Yeah, that's, it's so interesting. And it's so interesting, and this happens with anybody in adoption, especially when you look different from your child, how the community is curious. People are curious.
Rhonda Chandler (29:55.47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Correct. Yep. Yep.
Rhonda Chandler (30:04.397)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (30:18.242)
Now, some come at you with judgment, some with just mere curiosity, wanting to understand. And you get to decide how you're going to respond in any given moment. And ultimately, you know best as the parent, however, being open to receiving. And then whether you choose whether or not this is an education moment or simply a just thank you.
Rhonda Chandler (30:25.005)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (30:45.007)
Mm-hmm. Right. Not today. I can't today. Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (30:45.975)
I gotta go on with my, you know, roll your eyes. Yeah. So when it comes to skin and hair, when do parents need to start being diligent about that and what should they be doing?
Rhonda Chandler (30:55.982)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (31:04.187)
Immediately. My that's my recommendation. immediately, again, being intentional about educating yourself before you even decide if you're bringing a child into your home.
Rebecca Gruenspan (31:05.867)
immediate.
Rhonda Chandler (31:23.039)
exposing yourself, you know, they have all kinds of information, you know, via chat, via the World Wide Web. But also getting into the community, like spending time with stylists, spending time understanding you know, skincare needs, etc. So f just from the beginning, that that education needs to start. As soon as you are willing
start that preparation and understanding the hair care needs are going to be different. Skin skin care needs are going to be different.
Rebecca Gruenspan (32:05.753)
So what does that look like for a family who's matched with a black mom, gonna give birth, they know their child is going to be black or biracial? What can they be looking at? What resources are available? Because to me, I think there's two things. Understanding the why, right? Because there is a why behind it. And then understanding the tactical.
So talk to me about the resources or what they should be looking for or into.
Rhonda Chandler (32:42.091)
So, you know, depending on on your community, they there are, you know, they should have resource groups. you know, I know Facebook has different groups and some things can be good, some some things can be bad. but if you don't have those resources where you reside, I would say that's a start. Joining you know, a group or the agency that you're connected with, finding out from them, you know, do you have
have resources so that, you know, I can intentionally care and raise for this child that is coming into my home. We you know, loving the skin I'm in, in the melanated adoption journey, we are intentional about
Rebecca Gruenspan (33:13.667)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (33:31.264)
locating resources, you know, for our families. So, you know, we put together like a hair care hair care list recommending hair care products. Not every product is the same for everyone. So it's trial and era, but here here are a list of, you know, safe hair care products, skincare products that we would recommend.
and finding stylists, you know, finding therapists that represent, you know, our kids. I'm intentional about meeting with those individuals. because, you know, as I share with the families, if it's
Rebecca Gruenspan (33:59.577)
Mmm.
Rhonda Chandler (34:14.133)
Somewhere that I would not take my own child, I would not recommend it, you know, externally. So I'm really intentional about building those relationships and having conversations so that, you know, we can make sure that it's it's going to be safe for our families, for the kids. and you know, it's going to be a good experience for them. But there are a lot of resources, you know.
that we can research, go to the nearest, you know, city, if you don't have it necessarily in your city, go to the nearest city. But there are so many you know, ways to access resources.
Rebecca Gruenspan (34:58.017)
I know styles for kids is a big one. we, we did an episode with Tamika a couple years ago. I'll link it in the show notes, but she's a great resource style for kids. And there's a couple other.
Rhonda Chandler (35:00.469)
Absolutely. Yep. Tamika's great. Yes.
Rhonda Chandler (35:08.889)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (35:12.281)
She is. Yep. Yeah, I was yes, there are. And I think it's the it's growing. The need is, you know, it's growing. So more and more people are you know, working to provide those resources. there's a non profit here in the northeast Wisconsin area that's fairly new.
two stylists, I believe a a barber and a and a stylist. And I believe it's c culture coils and confidence, if I'm saying it correctly. But yes, just you know, the need is there. So we're we're really trying to put resources together so that we can support the kids and their families.
Rebecca Gruenspan (36:00.825)
That's awesome. I love it. And switching gears a little bit, in an open adoption, the birth family probably has different traditions and different food and different faith and ways of doing family than their child's parents and the parent, know, their child's parent or parents.
What are some ways that adoptive parents can navigate this, the different cultures, the different communities, the different everything, and show up well to do open adoption well?
Rhonda Chandler (36:43.341)
I just got back from a conference and we were talking about bridging that gap and having, you know, foster families, birth families, adoptive families. You know, if it's a self if it's a safe and healthy situation, you know, would love to have them working together, communicating to understand those those traditions and things, you know, to make
Rebecca Gruenspan (36:48.439)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (37:09.877)
sure that the child is staying connected to their identity and their culture. So I think it's very important you know, to understand that. Don't try to do like every single thing. But hey, these are some things that we are going to incorporate into our new families. You know, we have a new family makeup. So this is what we're going to incorporate in our family and talking to the birth family and saying, Hey, you know what, what kind of things or if they're
Rebecca Gruenspan (37:31.829)
Yes.
Rhonda Chandler (37:39.794)
you know, things that the birth parent can share and write down prior to the adoption happening. These are things, you know, to honor and respect our culture, you know, and and again, families can do research and say, okay, this is like these are one or two things we're going to do
you know, as we're raising this child, but don't don't overwhelm yourself and think that, my goodness, I have to incorporate everything, but finding those few traditions or things that matter t to their birth family and incorporating them into into their new family makeup system. Absolutely.
Rebecca Gruenspan (38:21.237)
I love, you said two things that really, really resonate with me. One is,
asking those questions during the match, before the baby's born. starting, not only is what a great bonding conversation to have, but also you have no idea what the relationship is gonna be after the birth. Hopefully they will stay in your lives, but you don't know. So get what you can if there's recipes that have been passed out.
Rhonda Chandler (38:33.099)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (38:50.489)
Yes. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Definitely, yep. Yep.
Rebecca Gruenspan (38:57.689)
get those recipes. It's gold. Unfortunately, I asked both sides of my son's birth family and they're Mexican and they're like, we don't really have any special foods. We don't really have any recipes. I'm like, come on. And one of them is a chef. He's like, well, I don't have any recipes. I just do this. Right.
Rhonda Chandler (39:00.623)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (39:14.861)
Really.
I just do it 'cause yeah, off the top of my head. Exactly. Yep. Yep.
Rebecca Gruenspan (39:21.529)
Or we don't have any specific traditions or maybe if they do, it's not really something that feels good to incorporate into our family. it's so... Anyways, we talk about it and we go, there's other ways to do it too, going out to restaurants and all that. Anyways, I love the idea of starting that conversation before the baby's born. That's beautiful.
Rhonda Chandler (39:41.72)
Absolute finding, yep, finding. Mm-hmm. Yes. Early on. Yep. Is there is there
Rebecca Gruenspan (39:50.572)
early on.
Rhonda Chandler (39:51.84)
a family tradition. Like you said, if it's if it's not around food or I'm not a cook or you know, this is a a longstanding family recipe. I I don't want to give it away. Finding an event to attend and making that a tradition so that the child again stays connected to their identity.
Rebecca Gruenspan (40:06.617)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (40:12.351)
artwork, you know, find out what's important to that birth family. What's that family like? Specific art or specific music or have children's music that they played for their other kids or books or there's so many different ways. And the other thing that really resonated with me is you said, this is now a part of our family makeup. You didn't make it about
Rhonda Chandler (40:16.323)
Definitely.
Rhonda Chandler (40:29.817)
So many ways, absolutely. Yep, absolutely.
Rebecca Gruenspan (40:41.998)
that one child. This is about how our family now does things. Right? We never wanna, we never wanna single out a child and say, well, we're doing this because of you. No, this is our whole family unit.
Rhonda Chandler (40:53.997)
No. Right. We're all we're all yep, we're a family. We're all participating, you know, in this event. We're all going to make this special dish or, you know, we're all going to create this special project or whatever. So everybody has a hand in it. Exactly.
Rebecca Gruenspan (41:12.067)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (41:21.081)
What advice might you give to if we are raising a Black child to feel good about who they are when their parents don't share that with them? And what can they do when they're young, especially to prepare them as they get older because that's when the bigger issues come out, right?
Rhonda Chandler (41:47.907)
Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (41:48.243)
What can we be doing? And we talked about some of them, right? The cultural things and letting them know that it was important to them and they had these conversations with their birth family and as open a relationship as you can. Those are more obvious. What are some of the more things that the parents can do behind closed doors?
Rhonda Chandler (42:10.093)
As you mentioned, you know, making sure they have books that they can see the representation, different art in the home, making, you know, just making having a diverse collection in the home so that they can feel again a part of that family system. Like
You know, put in photos, share photos if if birth families if it's a open adoption, birth families share photos, incorporate those, display those, have in the child's room wherever so that they can feel
a part of that home and you know and see you know see the the family wherever they go, whether it's the den, the living room, etcetera. But that is so important, incorporating their family, their history, their culture, giving them, you know, books to show representation again, who is your village, having a village w before this child comes into
Rebecca Gruenspan (42:50.756)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (43:19.514)
Mmm.
Rhonda Chandler (43:19.753)
your home, having that representation, having mentors and then as they they get older, seeking out mentors, you know, for them, if they, you know, have a particular interest, dance or music or or whatever, finding those mentors, those representation, you know, for them as they are growing up. But I think it's, you know, what do you what what are things you have in your home?
do you have any representation where they can look around and they see things, you know, that make them feel connected to who they are? 'Cause tha that is their home.
Rebecca Gruenspan (43:59.556)
Yeah, I think also number one, having open conversations behind closed doors, letting your child know that they're going to have a different experience than you'll ever understand and that it's okay. And it's okay to have different feelings about it. Like those conversations are just as important as an open adoption relationship. That's part of open adoption.
Rhonda Chandler (44:26.319)
Yes.
Rebecca Gruenspan (44:29.036)
is having those conversations. Having your child see that you have at least attempted to understand what it is to be black.
Rhonda Chandler (44:40.857)
You're you're intentional. You're making you're doing the work. You're making that effort. Validate their feelings. you know, when they are sharing with you, you know, how they're feeling, or if they say you don't get it, you won't get it, you don't understand. But validate their feelings and again encourage conversation to unpack that more. you know, because yes, different stages, phases of life, you know, when they start to
Rebecca Gruenspan (44:45.176)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (44:58.714)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (45:10.811)
mature they're really going, you know, to kind of see how the world moves. So definitely validating their feelings and encouraging conversation is j is is very valid and important.
Rebecca Gruenspan (45:22.991)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (45:26.594)
And I would venture to guess, and I think it's the same with all of our children, right? What we're trying to do is raise confident human beings to go out in the world and be confident in their own skin, in their own identity. And that's really hard when you don't know how to do that for that race, for that culture, for that whatever, because the rest of the world is going to expect them to know. And I think that's the hardest part.
Rhonda Chandler (45:36.255)
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Rhonda Chandler (45:47.724)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (45:56.918)
is that the rest of the world expects something of a human upon looking at them.
Rhonda Chandler (46:03.075)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Rebecca Gruenspan (46:05.246)
And what are you going to do with that? I think that is one of the hardest parts. mean, no conversation even has to be had, but there's a way you show up as a human in the world.
Rhonda Chandler (46:15.119)
Yeah.
Yes. And it's right. They already yep, the assumption is there, but that that education, in the in those open conversations, you know, avoiding things, avoiding the elephant in the room or secrecy never helps a situation. So you definitely always, you know, want to be open p you know, about who they are.
Rebecca Gruenspan (46:22.414)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (46:46.176)
their culture, belonging, etcetera.
Rebecca Gruenspan (46:49.977)
Well, one of the things I love talking about are the things, sorry, my context doesn't bother me, are the things that your child is going to say to you at some point, right? One of them is the, you're not my real mom, you're not my real dad, right? But let's take it a step further when your child comes to you and says, I wish I was white, or something like you'll never understand, you're not black.
Rhonda Chandler (47:06.348)
yes.
Rebecca Gruenspan (47:20.402)
What are some things a parent should say in that moment and what are some things we shouldn't say?
Rhonda Chandler (47:28.001)
Again, validating their feelings and let let's unpack this to understand like has something recently gone on, has there been, you know, an encounter at school or or with a peer? or are they just going through those developmental stages and starting to really understand I'm
Rebecca Gruenspan (47:30.477)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (47:52.364)
adopted and I'm adopted in a family that does not look like me, the questions of, you know, maybe why did my birth family choose adoption, etcetera? So I think, you know, validating having those open conversations, the child may not necessarily have the words for what they're feeling, but un unpacking where those questions and feelings are coming from and
Rebecca Gruenspan (48:22.211)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (48:22.297)
assuring them that they're real. Don't dismiss them. you know, don't say I don't see color. that, you know, we we love you regardless. Like, you know, all of that. I think, you know, the affirmations, encouragement throughout
Rebecca Gruenspan (48:25.123)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (48:41.773)
their life, but when you have those moments where they're really kind of, you know, questioning identity, things of that nature, you just sometimes you might just have to sit in it and be quiet and if you don't have the words, that I think that's honest too. Like, you know, I don't know how to respond right now. Can you can you give me, you know, s a moment? I I need some time to really unpack that.
Rebecca Gruenspan (48:58.138)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (49:08.815)
I think that's valid as well. But not not dismissing the child is is very important or you know, you know, not taking what they're saying seriously. It's a teachable moment. It's an opportunity for real conversation to start and you don't have to have all the answers in that one conversation.
Rebecca Gruenspan (49:10.564)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (49:15.715)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (49:30.85)
like those words, that's valid. I think that's a great thing to say to your child. That's valid. You know, and I don't know how to respond right now. I need to sit with this for a minute. And also the be curious, right? If there's anything I've learned and probably way too late, although it's never too late, my son's a teenager now I'm going to have to use that curiosity a lot. Be curious. I love that. Where's that? I'm curious where that's coming from.
Rhonda Chandler (49:33.517)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (49:37.965)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Right.
Rhonda Chandler (49:54.637)
Yes.
Rhonda Chandler (50:02.383)
I think just you know the the the world that we live in, I think they learn over time as they're developing. Like, you know, and I I need some answers. I need to understand you know, why my family may be different or why I didn't get to stay with my birth family. so I think I think it's it's a lot of different emotions.
Rebecca Gruenspan (50:10.714)
Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (50:26.638)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (50:31.319)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, just that curiosity that validation. I love it. our kids grow up and they go to school and hopefully they're seeing a therapist because all of our all of us should be And that's a note to myself I better get on that I've said I've been doing that for a long time now. I gotta get on it and
Rhonda Chandler (50:34.723)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (50:48.106)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (50:55.907)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (51:01.014)
I'm curious what schools, what therapists, what adoption agencies get wrong about transracial families in your opinion.
Rhonda Chandler (51:13.721)
think that schools you know and it's it's not totally their job they're they're overwhelmed they're overworked etc you know caseloads are are high but I think they're more focused or their focus has been on okay we have this child who is placed in a foster home this child who is adopted or this child who may be youth job
Rebecca Gruenspan (51:22.746)
True.
Rhonda Chandler (51:43.618)
justice involved, whatever, or they don't know, they may not even know until they see the parent, you know. but I think we really have to understand or look at where
where these underlying behaviors are coming from or why these behaviors are come are are happening. You know, I've I've worked in school social work. So, you know, you have the teachers and they're like, Well, so and so just is like disrupting my class, won't sit still, won't, you know, or is is defiant in class, but
Rebecca Gruenspan (52:05.242)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (52:19.573)
Really understanding like where these behaviors are coming from. And it could be kids are dealing with anxiety. They're dealing with depression. you know, I'm in a home where no one looks like me. I just maybe found out that I am adopted or I I'm in a foster placement. So what what's the underlying
Rebecca Gruenspan (52:33.208)
Okay.
Rhonda Chandler (52:44.245)
you know, behavior, not that they just fall into these categories, but what are the underlying cat behaviors and let's not miss the mark. Why is she depressed? Why is she anxious? Why are they, you know, disrupting the class or or, you know, talking back to the teacher, etcetera? So we really we really have to pay attention because it could it could look great on the outside. they have a beautiful home, loving parents, you know, but
Rebecca Gruenspan (52:59.642)
Hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (53:09.572)
Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (53:14.129)
Let's let's not miss those underlying factors that are happening to the kiddos.
Rebecca Gruenspan (53:21.688)
Yeah, and I think, I mean, you bring up a great point, right? There's a lot of people jump to conclusions really quickly. So how does a parent speak up for their child without it really becoming a fight? Because that's not going to help. But to really help advocate for your child and at the same time educate, because at that point we have to become educators.
Rhonda Chandler (53:49.408)
well, in a ideal world, I think you know, families going into the schools and having those conversations early on, you know, if whether it's when we start preschool or, you know, whatever, but having those conversations with staff, you know, but also the concern sometime is I don't want my child to be judged or labeled,
You know, et cetera. But I think having open dialogue from the beginning, building that relationship, you know, again, you know, that's the social worker in me. The school and families
they need to work together, they need to have a relationship. it shouldn't just be like when there is a problem, the school is calling the parent to come in. There's there there needs to be this relationship established from the time your child comes into the school so that we, you know, we're praising the child, we're working when they're tough times, etc. We're making sure that the child is successful. So I think having those conversations
Rebecca Gruenspan (54:43.887)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (55:04.459)
early on and building that relationship with the schools, schools building that relationship with the parents, having an open door and welcoming policy so that, you know, parents they can come in and they want to share. We really all want to be, you know, on the same team, which with the child in at the center.
Rebecca Gruenspan (55:25.112)
Yeah, I think that's important. I've always been up. So a few things here. I think it's definitely more important when your child is younger and they're in that fantasy land. And I mean, I've heard so many stories, including my own, where a child will say things like, I have five sisters or brothers or I have horses at home. And then you're like.
Rhonda Chandler (55:48.557)
Right, right.
Rebecca Gruenspan (55:51.084)
hmm, this is not true. You know, letting the teachers knowing what's going on. I think it's definitely important until the child can tell their own story if they want and then letting them play it out unless there's a need. I think it's important.
Rhonda Chandler (55:53.059)
Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (56:03.163)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (56:08.985)
Right.
Rebecca Gruenspan (56:11.182)
drop off and pick up and talk to those teachers as much as you can. Don't miss a conference. You have to, my feeling was always, want the school to know who I am and I want them to know who my child is.
Rhonda Chandler (56:15.299)
Yes.
Rhonda Chandler (56:23.171)
Mm. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rebecca Gruenspan (56:27.384)
because a lot of our children can fall through the cracks really easily. And you want to make sure somebody sees your child.
Rhonda Chandler (56:32.629)
And quickly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I agree. I agree. Yes.
Rebecca Gruenspan (56:37.229)
and lays eyes on them. Yeah. So be that advocate in that way. It's really important. And the same with therapists. know, there's a real, you know, once your child gets to a certain age, the therapist sees the child on their own. So where is the parent's role and what's the therapist's role in letting a parent know, OK, here's something, there's things going on here without
Rhonda Chandler (56:45.311)
Absolutely.
Rhonda Chandler (56:55.907)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (57:08.076)
you know, the whole trust factor.
Rhonda Chandler (57:10.337)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think you know, when as kids get older, parents, you you still parent, but you also become an advisor and and support them, you know.
But also you there's that safety and and well-being factor, you know, making sure, you know, that they aren't wanting to harm themselves, et cetera. so I think being an advisor, we're we're all on the same team, which is your team, to support you. Same with the therapist, like I'm here, you know, to guide you, support you, advocate for you.
You know, but if if there times where, you know, it becomes a safety, yes, I have a a job to do. but even maybe offering times where, you know, I know when they
get a certain age, you have to get permission for parents to, you know, be a part of therapy, et cetera. But saying, hey, do we check in with one another like monthly, kinda do a a monthly, you know, session where the parents are, you know, involved if we're just doing, you know, individual right now. But is there a time that we all can connect just so that, you know, we can share common goals and make sure, you know, we're headed that way.
Rebecca Gruenspan (58:09.871)
Mm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (58:32.154)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (58:34.201)
But I think, you know, you want the child to feel safe. Both parents want you know, you want your child to feel safe and that they can come to you.
Rebecca Gruenspan (58:39.033)
Yeah.
Rhonda Chandler (58:44.963)
with whatever but there are times where they may not feel like their parent is that safe space or I can say this to my parent but I can talk to my therapist, you know, about it. So it is a thin line. but I would encourage, you know, having having the the conversation with all parties and saying, Hey, is there a time once a month or once every few months we can all sit down together and check in and see and see how things are going because you
Rebecca Gruenspan (58:56.353)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (59:11.481)
Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (59:14.897)
are the center of our focus. Yeah.
Rebecca Gruenspan (59:18.646)
Mm-hmm. At least at a high level. And letting the child know what will be shared, what won't be shared, and yeah. And same with the parent. Telling the parent what will be shared, what won't be shared. Because you have to agree to that too. I have heard some people in the Black community, as well as some adult adoptees who were adopted transracially, say that white families shouldn't adopt Black children at all.
Rhonda Chandler (59:22.555)
Mm, mm.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yes.
Rhonda Chandler (59:41.965)
Okay. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Gruenspan (59:47.268)
How do you respond to that and what should a hopeful parent do with it?
Rhonda Chandler (59:51.988)
You know, it's an individual preference, but again, it's that willingness versus preparedness. You have to be prepared. You can be willing. we have a beautiful home, we have the finances, we will love them as our own, but it's it's much deeper than that. So if you are preparing and intentional,
then that is a personal choice for your family. It is it's beyond the material things that you can give the child. it's you know, it's beyond, I love them, you're a part of my family. But you really have to work to understand that identity cultural aspect and what their day to day walk is going to be like even when they
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:00:51.162)
My last podcast guest said, Melissa Smallwood said, you're not adopting a child, you're becoming a parent. that child goes through all the stages in life. And so being prepared is important. I also think people are always gonna have judgments. knowing that before you go into it, are you convicted enough?
Rhonda Chandler (01:01:13.463)
Absolutely.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:01:20.972)
In yourself, have, do you know you've done the work to be able to, you know, brush off the naysayers. Cause it can, it can wear on you. You know, I work in a field that I'm like every once in a while I'm like, why do I do what I do? mean, there's people out there who think I'm the most awful person in the world. And I have to just know that I do amazing work or.
Rhonda Chandler (01:01:20.975)
It'd be okay. Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (01:01:32.985)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rhonda Chandler (01:01:43.179)
Right, right.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:01:49.918)
I am doing the right things with my family. People don't know who I am on the inside. They see me on a camera and they make a judgment. So you have to be convicted and you have to do the work. yeah, there needs to be parents for all the children, whoever that is. Thank you so much for being in this conversation with us and being
Rhonda Chandler (01:02:01.657)
You do. Right. Absolutely.
Rhonda Chandler (01:02:10.721)
It right. Right.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:02:18.424)
open and talking about some of hard things. I like to peel back the layers for people to see and understand what really they might face or what really they should be doing or question is this really something I can take on? And you don't always know until you're in it. So I try to give the in it
Rhonda Chandler (01:02:45.09)
In it.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:02:46.967)
as much as possible for people to think through. So thank you so much for being part of that conversation. I really appreciate it. You've given us a lot of golden nuggets to think about. And before you leave, I always end with a rapid fire questions, a series of questions. And the first one is to give a shout out to one person or organization that has influenced the work you're doing in adoption.
Rhonda Chandler (01:03:16.812)
my goodness. I would say
Rhonda Chandler (01:03:24.985)
Tamika with Styles for Kids. I was fortunate enough to participate in her podcast now. I think it was a few years ago, and I can't even remember, you know, how we connected, but was just I'm just blown away by the work, you know, that she is doing. and just I think
We've we've been we've been in conversations recently with some of the local human services agencies. So, just looking forward to the work that we can do in that space. you know, because we're seeing kids that are coming into care and you know, all of their needs. So I would say though the
the heritage si I'm sorry, styles for kids and then our, you know, local human services agencies, and then, you know, of course the families that have come to love in the skin I'm in. So thank you because I don't think that was it wasn't on my radar to to start this work. so I'm thankful for the families.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:04:47.611)
I love that. What's one piece of advice that you would give to hopeful, adoptive parents, even if they don't want to hear it?
Rhonda Chandler (01:04:56.473)
Do the work. Do the work.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:05:00.409)
Where has joy shown up for you in adoption?
Rhonda Chandler (01:05:06.477)
Joy has shown up in one young lady. well I have quite a few stories, but well, two stories. One young lady, who was transracially adopted and I met her in middle school. I think she was a middle schooler, and she was a part of our organization, and then she became a mentor.
for the girls and she graduated high school and now she is serving in the United States Army. So and just but just her confidence as a young woman and coming back and pouring into the girls. Like I was once where you are and now, you know, I want to be that mentor for you. and then watching another one of our young ladies who
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:05:56.634)
Mm.
Rhonda Chandler (01:06:03.187)
is transracially adopted and I met her when she was in fifth grade and she is now a sophomore in high school and just watching her her her development and finding who she is and understanding you know her culture and just her advocating for herself and advocating for her community.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:06:26.489)
Mm, I love that. Describe adoption in three words.
Rhonda Chandler (01:06:34.691)
Woo I would say love, willingness, and preparedness.
Rebecca Gruenspan (01:06:42.661)
Thank you so much for being with us today.
Rhonda Chandler (01:06:45.592)
Yeah. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate this.
